SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hustlers, on today's episode of the Trump to Hustle podcast, we're joined by an entrepreneur who was a former pastor, returned entrepreneur who's helping people completely rethink the way they use money. After spending 20 years in ministry, he made the leap into business ownership and now specializes in first position HELOC strategies, teaching people how to become their own banks, pay off debt faster, and use leverage to build real wealth. Through his company, Hard Makes You Better, he helps families and investors break free from the paycheck-to-paycheck mindset and take control of their financial future. Today's episode, Tyler Hennessy. Welcome to another episode of the Turn of the Hustle Podcast, where real estate investors and entrepreneurs share their stories, strategies, and mindset behind your hustle. I'm your host, Michael Giannis, aka Mr. Hustle. To my right, Scotty Moon. Let's go. And today's special guest, Tyler Hennessy.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

What's up, everybody? How you doing? I'm good. I'm good. I appreciate you being here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Now, Tyler, before we get started, I always talk about my hustle. My hustle is real estate wholesaling, real estate flipping, and real estate subject to by taking over payments. When someone thinks of Tyler, what's Tyler's hustle?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

I'd say becoming your own bank, the art of leverage and paying your home off faster.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

One more time.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Becoming your own bank, the art of leverage and paying your home off faster through a first lean HELOC.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

So I heard about you doing first lean HELOC. I'm a creative guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

But when I heard what you're doing, it sounds more creative on being creative. So I definitely want to get into that, man. But before the HELOCs, before the 20 years of being a pastor, who was Tyler before all that?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Man, that's a that's a loaded question. But I I grew up in Houston, Texas. So uh shout out to my uncle because he's a you y'all probably heard of Perry Holmes. That's that's my uncle. I was with him. He he I know. We never got to that. Oh, he's big time. He passed away 13 years ago. So my my cousin Kathy runs the company now, she's a president. We was with him yesterday. We had a massive family reunion. So to give you context, I grew up in that world as far as like my dad's Hennessy homes. Hennessy homes would be like down here. Perry's like national. I mean, they're huge. Uh and he was yeah, big giver. So dad's a home builder, broker, and then Perry Homes. So I grew up around the building community. So I was homeschooled until fourth grade. So I literally rode my dad in a truck every day to see how homes are built. And then he got into the commercial space. And so that was in my blood truly. Like I started to love just watching how the whole thing comes to life. I just fast forward quite a bit, went to college, Texas State University, down the road from here. Um, and I went to, of course, get my business degree. So I get my business degree, marketing minor, and I get my real estate license in Texas, which y'all know is supposed to be one of the hardest places in the country to get it right. And I'm not a great test taker, but got it, you know, in the first run. I'm like, here we go. I'm gonna go. Yeah. Well, I study my butt off for the first time ever. I didn't I don't normally study and I study because I was scared. Uh so I went to work for my dad, City West Realty, for maybe six months. But if I rewind a little bit in college, I was already a believer in Jesus. So I'll say I grew up in a Christian home. A lot of people think that means like real religious, not to get into a huge or ordeal with that. I don't look at it that way at all. Like I'm not, that doesn't mean like I'm a rule follower or a legalist, but I have a relationship with Jesus. And so I grew up like that. But I was very focused on money and business. And I love the word hustle because like I was telling my family the other day, I'm like, I've been a hustler since I've been born. I was just in my nature. I I will haggle on a price just for the fun of it. I I will yeah, right? It's all about that. So like I that's just in my blood. I I really do love to just and not to hurt somebody. I want them to get their fair share, but I want to know that I'm not getting taken. So uh got my my real estate license and I was like, here we go. But the Lord did some stuff in my life in college and I started playing guitar for the first time, going from hip hop days in high school and learning how to rhyme and poetry. Got it, started playing guitar. Long story short, got a phone call from Austin, Texas, Westlake Hills Church. And they said, Will you be a uh a part-time or uh it was uh it was $13,000 a year and we'll pay for your room and board? I'm like, oh my gosh. But felt God tell me to do that. What year was this? This was 2005.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

2005. You keep saying Houston music. You keep saying what, Houston hip hop, and then you went to Christian music. Unless I miss something, what are we talking about from school to Houston hip hop to went to school for business, and now we just kind of switched pretty instantly to pastor?

SPEAKER_01 4:29

So no, I mean, uh, do you want me to get deep on this?

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Yeah, because I mean I never interviewed a 20-year pastor before.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So yeah, I mean, I I'm an open book. So you can ask me whatever you want. I'm just trying to not give you too many of the details. But uh when I was 19 years old, uh finished dating a girl from high school, you know, and in the middle of my business degree, start playing acoustic guitar, writing. I I didn't I had no desire for this, truly, but started writing music and I was decent at it, like was pretty good at rhyming and stuff like that, but but had no experience uh other than poetry, do like hip hop, same thing, right? So I started doing that, and there was a ministry at Texas State called Crosstalk Ministry, and this guy invites me to a Bible study, and I was like, I don't want to go. I was like, everything I've ever seen in church is fake, or it's all about the holier than thou, or people are lifting their hands on Sunday, and then totally opposite during the week. I just had I'd grown a very uh judgmental heart. I'd grown against like I I believed in Jesus, but I was like, I don't like what I see from Christians. Like they're they're not actually reaching the world and they're building their own country clubs and building their own whatever. And so I was very judgmental. I go to, they invite me to this retreat called Encounter. I say no. Uh a friend of mine, they pay my way and they literally pick me up from my my dorm uh one morning, like you're going. I go, uh, I'm literally sitting there arms folded while they're playing music, like worship music and singing and stuff. And I'm like, I'm not doing this. Like, I'm all business. I'm about to like I want to I want to make money. I know that I'm I feel like I'm gifted in this. I feel like God's like literally bred me to be a businessman. And the Lord truly broke me like uh in that spot. I remember uh I'm gonna go real deep with y'all. I remember feeling the Holy Spirit all over me and bringing me to my knees and just convicting me of just a lot of stuff that I held on to from childhood and against my mom and anger issues, and that I was seeking the wrong things of this world and I wasn't gonna be fulfilled with that. And so I remember being broken to that moment, and this guy starts praying over me and saying, you know, God has something uh in store for your life through ministry and being a pastor, and I'm like, this guy's lost his mind. Like, I'm not gonna be a pastor no matter like I don't like, I don't even like how they come across. And so I don't want to have to tell someone I'm a pastor. Like, because when you meet someone, play play with a pastor on the golf course and you cuss in front of them, they're like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm like, dude, I'm not God. Like, I don't know why you're apologizing to me. Uh or whatever it is. They just they get weird. They people don't, people are not themselves around pastors most of the time. And so I was like, I don't want to be that. But the Lord made it clear then, I then that that's when I got the call from Austin, Texas. I was still in college here. I got the call to be a pastor, a worship pastor for one year. I was like, I'll do it for one year. Then I'm gonna go back and do business. So I did that, got to my dad's office in Houston, Katy, Texas. Um six months into that, I get a call from the second largest Baptist church in the country, second Baptist, uh, largest Baptist church at the time, 55,000 people. It's like 90,000, massive. And they're like, we we have an opening here. And I'm like, same thing. No. Felt the Lord lead me to do it. I go do it for three years. Then I get a call from Louisiana, end up being 15 years of ministry there. So I'm I'm fast-forwarding a lot, but uh my my what I thought I was good at was business and people and gonna build my own business. And I think the Lord used that used that to break me and realize I was looking at money the wrong way, and I was looking at it for my own stature. And that's why, like, honestly, I wasn't even on social media for a long time at all because I didn't like the facade. And even I was telling you guys this before we even started the podcast, started my own Instagram handle a year and a half ago. It's very vulnerable, it's very weird. You know, you're like, I'm like, I'm not gonna pay for the followers, I'm not gonna pay for the likes, and I'm not no shade to anybody who does that, but I'm like, I'm gonna be real. And even if I have 3,000 people or 1,500 people, there'll be 1,500 people who know me and are gonna be like, that's the same guy I met at church, same guy I met on the basketball court, same guy I met on the golf, you know, wherever it is. So that that kind of led to the whole journey to pastoralship.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

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SPEAKER_01 9:21

I just I'm trying to, for your listeners who read.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Yeah, I'm what? I'm curious. I'm generally curious as from Houston hip hop to going to this Papist. Now you said to the Second Baptist, that's the second largest Baptist at the time in the beginning. Right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

Ed Young, yeah. I mean, I think it was the largest Baptist church, which is funny because we were called Second Baptist, the F Joel Olstein's church, which is non non-denominational. But and the the context for that is I believe it or not, churches operate very business like, especially if they're big. And so that's why I think I was even gifted in it. It's like I was like, I get the business side. It's the not to preach to everybody, but there needs to be a separation from business in church, you know, and church need to be where we have a community of believers coming together to level one another, build one another up. But what I learned, I'm telling you what this is what's so cool. Where most people would say I'm 20 years behind you guys, and ever and I bet I'm I'm gonna know you guys are studs at what you do. I think I'm 20 years in front of most people because of what God taught me in ministry, because I truly got like I still could be humbled more, but truly got humbled, truly got broken, truly learned how to talk to people, met multimillionaires who were depressed, empty, all these things. And I'm like, man, I might not have money, but I have peace and I have joy and I have hope. And and they were like, You're the most real pastor I've ever talked to. I was like, Well, because I'm I'm I'm you, I connect to you, like I, you know what I'm saying? So that that gave me a lot of ministry opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Being a pastor for 20 years, I feel like you have a different point of view on life than most people. Yes, sir. And I mean you're seeing some of these examples now. As a pastor for 20 years, I mean, what was the toughest times?

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Oh man, uh finances were always tough. Uh they got better. Um, that was tough feeling alone. So especially when you're at a big church, like you can and I wasn't like on a normal Sunday at Second Baptist, I didn't do this a lot, but I had a couple times I'd lead worship uh and you know, there's 6,000 people in a room, and you're you're like, that's a you are elevated on this platform, or pastors get elevated on this platform, and that can be dangerous in a lot of ways. I mean, I can preach it and yeah, I mean, I have so much so much stuff we could talk about. But it there's there's a lot that happens in that that you have to constantly remind yourself that any elevation that you've had is Jesus, not your own doing. And you're not, you're not like at the big scheme of things, who cares? I mean, 6,000 people is nothing in in the big scheme, right? And so I end up going to even a smaller church in in Louisiana, it was about 3,000 people compared to 60,000. But I I uh I got to lead young adult groups, I got a disciple, I always led four or five men per year in discipleship. That was the best part of my ministry, bar none. More than playing music, which I love, more than getting to teach, which I love. I feel like God's giving me a gift of teaching. I love getting to be alongside men and and and talking about our struggles, talking about our marriages that are difficult at that time. Or my wife just had a baby and things are difficult with intimacy, you know, all the things that everybody's dealing with, but nobody wants to talk about. I'm that guy. Like I'm saying, if you if you are willing to ask, be ready for an honest answer because I'm not gonna give you a fluff, fluffy answer.

SPEAKER_04 12:18

That's awesome. What um being in the ministry and being at business at the same time, because well, let me ask you that. When did you start? Were you in ministry and business at the same time, or was it one or the other?

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Dude, I was a ordained pastor, went to seminary, got my master's degree, so study theology. So I went all in on ministry eventually because I was like, this is what I'm doing. Yeah. And they make you kind of or they have you say, This is my new calling. Uh, in that process, the only thing I needed to do business wise was my wife and I would buy a home, y'all would get this immediately, fix it up, and we'd live there for two years, so I get out of taxes, and we go to the next one. We did that seven times. Wow. And so, but I built up all this equity that I couldn't touch. I was like, nothing is advanced. I'm still living paycheck to paycheck. This kind of sucks. So we just buy a little bit nicer home, build a little equity, but that was it. So that was the only business I really did outside of reality.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

The entire time of the 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

I dropped my real estate license lapse, which I shouldn't have. Um, because even those seven homes, I could have made commissions on every one of those deals. Uh, but I I like what was cool, I didn't realize this was being interwoven. I mean, I knew like legit 30 to 40 real estate agents well in that area, and I would minister to them and they would be like, you know, and I would help them find deals. I'm I'm a connector. So if I find out you do something and I believe your character is real, I'm gonna connect you with everybody that I know. And so I was doing that behind behind the scenes without realizing it, helping people with their finances, just being wise with what you got. So that was going on, but nothing I wasn't being paid a dime. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

I don't even know if you know this. My uh my dad actually went to Jimmy Swagger's Bible College in Louisiana as a uh a young adult. Um, unfortunately, his uh his first wife left him and so they kicked him out because you're not allowed to be divorced and be in that that uh seminary at the same time. So he actually ended up going into business, he's been in the same business since he was 15, and he's about to sell it in three weeks. He's 63 now. Wow. So yeah, he's it's been something different. But yeah, he actually started off over there. So being in ministry, what do you think? Do you think obviously, because I know your life has gone in a bunch of different directions, did it prep you for coming into business, you feel like? Do you think it's something that was super necessary for you to go through in order to be where you're at now?

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Do y'all ever feel like you like you can't see what's happening until you're through it? Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, like yes, uh that's what I said tenfold. I feel behind the eight ball in the sense, as I said, I don't need to be known, but because I put myself on social media, that's my business, it helps. And so I've I've tried to follow the the tools that I think are out there. But I think ministry, what it's helped me with is conflict resolution, uh having conversations that most business owners won't even have. Truly, like the people I'm partnered with, I I believe would go to bat for me, and vice versa. Um, being willing to have hard conversations when you mess up, lawsuits, stuff, like I'm not that guy. Uh if you were to come and sue me, I mean, I guess have at it. Yeah. But it's just like I just look at things differently. I I really every decision I make, business-wise, is is done through the lens of scripture and praying before the Lord every morning. I mean, that's it for me.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

So after 20 years of ministry, what was the next chapter? One, I mean, I guess someone in that position, I mean, um, to be lead pastor and well, we're I was a worship pastor and young adults and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

So someone to be in the ministry, be a uh worship pastor, to take that first step and say, hey, I want to go a different direction. How was that like? How was how did family take it? How did you take it?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

It was the hardest three years of my life. And I'm still kind of in it. Yeah. Um, my wife was amazing, uh, was, is amazing. She texted me right before this thing, just praying for me. And uh I've gotten very fortunate. I got a wife who not only people talk about their wife who like, you know, ride or die, she she believes in me. And I'm grateful because the days that I don't, you know, entrepreneurship is up and down. She believes in me completely. Uh, and I'm super, super grateful for that. She's also a vocalist, great vocalist, not not biased, like anybody would tell you she's a great vocalist. So she sung with me for 20 years. Her dad was a worship pastor, her granddad was a worship pastor. She swore she would not marry a pastor, and I swore I wouldn't be a pastor. So that's another just funny story. How got how God works. Tell God what you want to do, and you know, whatever. Right. Um, so, anyways, uh uh the the transition out of of ministry, full-time church ministry, started with a couple guys, like the discipleship guys meeting on Monday mornings for three years, and me having this like inclination in my heart that I needed to, that I was things are getting a little bit stale. Uh, things in the church, my the politics side of church has always ticked me off. Um, I pushed against it constantly. So I was a pusher at my church. If anybody somehow hears this, I'll be like, yeah, he's a pusher. So I'm like, why are we doing this? Like, this needs to be biblical, not just because not not let's not bring business into the church. And I started getting this feeling of if I'm gonna do business, I'm gonna go do business. I'm not gonna do it here inside this church walls. And I was getting elevated at that church uh and didn't really like that. Like I was like, this is weird, this hierarchy at the church and all this stuff. So prayed with these guys for a while, started feeling like I needed to step out, but I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Like I if I tell people I'm business, like people, even you guys be like, what do you mean? Like you're a business guy now all of a sudden. So you there's definitely a lot of flack that's come from that, and people probably think that I'm chasing money now who don't know me. Um, and but uh I got to a point that I was like, God, you've given me these resources in 2020. Uh wait, 2020, yeah. Yeah. June of 2020 is when I got into the first lean HELOC, just on the side, privately for my own home. October 23, I paid my home home off in full. And I'm like, this is this is like insanely life-changing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

I gotta ask, what was the mortgage?

SPEAKER_01 17:46

So I have an idea that you say two two two uh forty-seven.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

Okay, so quarter million dollars. And you paid it off in full in three and a half years. Three and a half years.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Yeah. So still as a pastor? So that hustle word started happening in the middle.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

Still as a pastor?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I started doing by I started working on the side. Okay, yeah. Definitely could not have done it with just my yeah. So yeah, there's no that that yeah, I can't just make money up here out of magically.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

That would have been bad right there. Are you a pastor who would have pair house off in three years?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Here we do, here we go. Uh so but in that, uh, I'm like, I'm starting to develop relationships for so from 20 about from 2020 to 2024, I'm developing business relationships. They're just starting to happen. And I'm starting to get in rooms I don't belong in, like for sure don't belong in. And I'm meeting with people who are mega wealthy, mega successful, and I'm feeling favor from the Lord. Like truly, like, man, they're they're they're asking me questions. And and I was like, man, maybe there's something here, you know? And so that's in the back of my mind as I'm still being a pastor. And I was just doing it in the evenings. I got called from a company, they said, would you uh they were looking for an affiliate job where you help share this information with clients? And that's what I was telling y'all about earlier. I did it in like in two months, I had like 35 sales, and they were like, dude, this is insane. And don't get me wrong, I mean, I remember my I I I've gone from making, you know, the the few thousand dollars per every two weeks to I had like I remember getting my first check and it was 23,000 and I did it in seven days, and I was like, oh my gosh, like that's that that's pretty wild, you know. But not I'm like my my heart's changed towards money. The way I view money has changed. I don't, I'm it's not an idol for me anymore. And so now I'm like, all right, who do I give this to? Who do we bless with this? But it kind of kept happening. And I was like, man, I like I feel like God's giving me favor in this world. So that started leading me out. But how do you articulate that to your pastor, your other friends? They're like, no, we know what you're doing. You're just making money and you don't want to be at the church anymore. I'm like, dude that like let me just say this for the hundredth time. It would have been a thousand times easier for me to stay at the church forever because now I've actually elevated myself to a place I'm getting paid pretty well.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

These questions, they actually said it physically, or you think they were thinking it?

SPEAKER_01 19:49

I know they're thinking it.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Heard the great time. That's a tough conversation. I mean, I'm gonna take someone in your position to be that close with you know, being in God's position to as a pastor, hey, I want to explore my next chapter of my life. Yeah. Nothing in God's telling me that, and you have a feeling or you know that that's what it's like. With some I know. Yeah, that's a tough, that's a tough it is.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

How do you handle that? Oh man, like I got I was most lonely season of my life. Um because here's the deal like I even like I connect with a Skylar pretty quick on one phone call, and I there's not there's a hundred of Skylars in my life right now, right? And you probably have the same same thing, right? But there's very few that are truly understand what I'm doing now, and so I'm working on these new relationships. Where at the church, I had incredible, deep, long, rooted relationships, and they I think they don't know how to even interact with me anymore. My mindset has changed towards money, towards wealth, towards stewardship, towards all these things. But that's been a I think it was a 26-year journey, but that six-year journey, it changed rapidly, quickly. Um, and so I'm wanting to share that with the church. I'm not like saying kick the church down. Right. This is my ministry. I pray on Zoom calls for people all the time. When they don't become clients, pray over them. Like it, that this is my ministry now. So it's just hard to communicate that with the new people.

SPEAKER_03 21:03

Let's go back to that HELOC.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

How do you pay off a quarter million dollars in three years? Either you're saving a lot of money or you're making a lot of money. You've done both.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

But so I I made I made good money starting in 20 uh three on the side, and then I left. Uh man, my ears are getting mixed up because it shows my age. Uh I left July of 2024, full-time ministry. That was my last uh July 1st was my last Sunday. Uh led worship and was completely done with no W-2, no Rule 1099, but I developed a lot of partnerships already. So at this point, I do know people. And, you know, we all get offered opportunities. I'm like, no, I'm like, I'm doing my own thing. I'm feeling led by God to do my own thing. I'm just gonna pray this works. So I spent about 60 to 90 days working on prayer and a vision. And the the phrase that kind of so my I grew up with the the choose the hard way, the narrow road. Uh and so the kind of phrase that my family's always said, Well, my kid says, Dad, that's hard. I'm like, well, hard makes you better. And so that kind of became the logo for an escorp. And so we always say hard makes you better. I think you can apply that to lifting weights. I think you can apply that to your marriage. I think you can apply that to the hustle. You can apply it to the marine, you know, whatever. And so that really has been a mantra of my life is hard makes you better. I'm not just gonna choose the easy way to apply. So I'm I'm I'm not going off the rails on this for what you asked me. When I go back to 2020, I'm like, man, I'm paying my mortgage. I have 27 years left, and I remember, I don't remember the exact amount. I was putting a couple hundred extra bucks per month towards the mortgage. That's what I heard from Dave Ramsey, other people out there. Um, and I'm like, nothing is happening. Like it moved from 27 to 18. So in 18 years, I'm be really happy about this. I'm like, does like what's the point of this? Like, I have too much business knowledge, too much experience, like even uh understanding to be sitting here. So I start researching uh alternative methods. I find this method called a first lean HELOC that I've never heard of in my life. And and there are variances to this. Have you guys heard of like velocity banking or chunking methods, stuff like that?

SPEAKER_03 22:57

Go back to first first lean HELOC. You said you never heard of that because most people think of HELOC as a second lean position. Right, which sounds reasonable, right? As a HELOC, typically it's a second lean position, third lean, even for some, depending on how you're financing it. What exactly is a first lean HELOC?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, so a first-lean HELOC, which you'll say if you tell your friend about this later, but I'm telling you, you're gonna have to probably repeat yourself 15 times. I'm not exaggerating, because they're gonna go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, no, no, no, no, you're not listening. My mortgage was in this loan, right? Is in this vehicle. This first lien HELOC envelops it, excuse me, envelops it, and now this it's in this new vehicle, meaning there's no mortgage. It's gone completely. The mortgage is gone. That's not the hack. Okay, that's just refinancing. That's not a hack.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

So still with you. You owe $250,000 in your mortgage, you owe $250,000 in your HELOC. Nothing changed other than the vehicle that it's in. The lien transferred. Correct. Yeah. Good luck calling any mortgage person you know to even understand what I just said, even just there. Because they're gonna they're gonna go, yeah, we'll get you a HELOC. You have uh I'm gonna try to make this as simple as possible. Let's say you your home is uh $400,000 home worth $400, and you owe $250, and you go get a HELOC from any bank, they're gonna give you in Texas 80% loan to value as high as you can get. What's 80% of $400,000, $320,000, right? So you'd have about a $70,000 line of credit above that $250. You tracking with me? Mm-hmm. Okay. That's it. So but you still have a mortgage payment? And you have a HELOC. So the payment has been. That's not what we're doing. We're only getting a first lien HELOC where the $250 is in a first lien HELOC, and I still have access to that $70, it is safer because they're not going to call a loan on a second on a first lien HELOC. You're in first position unless you don't pay your payment. Right. So that's the first thing. The second thing is understanding that you have to know the banks that actually do this. So even bank partners I have to this day, I have to call and remind them my client is getting a first lien HELOC because they will draw up a second lien HELOC. That's all they know, that's all they've been taught unless they literally specialize in it. I'm telling you. Because now they have two loans. They love you, right? And so I won't even bring on a client unless they have uh good credit, good equity, and good cash flow. Literally, we'll uh um every day. No, you cannot become a client. Well, I want to become a client. You're not become, I'm not gonna deal with a headache of what you're gonna do. So, first lien HELOC. So now this is our entire loan, right? It's operated off of simple interest, which is recasted every 24 hours. That drastically changes the game. I might say that 20 more times in this podcast, but that is the kicker. It's recasted every 24 hours based off of the principal balance owed.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

And if you have to break that down one more time, so make it even simpler.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Let's let's go to let's go to a $100,000 loan. Right. If you have a $100,000 loan on a mortgage, but you but you bought it when it was $250,000, you realize that that rate that everyone brags about that they get fixated on, that $2.25 they got during COVID, or that $3.5, or now 6.7, whatever. That rate that they brag about, the only thing it determines is their monthly payment on their mortgage. So do you guys have COVID rates on your home?

SPEAKER_03 26:06

I got a four or something. That's still pretty that's still pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

That's still pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

4.2 or something.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Okay. That 4.2, the only thing that it determines is your monthly payment. In the span of 30 years. Exactly. And it gets amortized. Yeah. So every every month it recalculates, you pay a uh a little bit more in principle and a little bit less in interest. But the first 15 to 17 years, you know this. You know this already, right? This is the stuff that people do know. So in this method, you don't have access to any of your equity. Right. And even when you pay the balance down from $400 down to $250, down to $150, your payment never comes down.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Why not?

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Because it's amortized over the 30 years. Yeah. Even you put down 30 grand in uh principal, your next payment is still the same payment.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

You have no access to it and your payment never changes. So as a real estate guy, if you find and just not this isn't a to flex that I'm way, I know you have done hundreds and hundreds, but worship pastor, I've bought 14 homes, 14 doors in the last two and a half years doing this method. So could not have done that with a mortgage because I didn't have access to my equity. But if you have access to your equity and you know how to put 20% down, which is what I consider to be safe to get out of PMI, right? I take 20% down, let's say it's a $130,000 home. I take $26,000, put it down, I have a tenant in there paying off my long-term rentals. That's a very safe way, I think, to do real estate. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Agreed. Okay. So in that model, I have access to liquidity up to 80% in Texas. In Louisiana, I had 90%. Here's another kicker. I had a 0.99 rate on the entire balance of $247,000 because they had a promo rate for a year with a bank I went with. So instead of having a 2.5, 3.5, I had a 0.99. And they'll tell you that doesn't exist. I've literally lived it. The next year, the promo rate ran out. I refinanced it for free. No title fees, no appraisal fees, no closing costs. This is a HELOC. It's a HELOC. And I got a 2.99 rate for the next two years, locked it in. So for three years, I'm paying 0.99 and 2.99 while I'm also selling this stuff, got into capital raising, getting referral fees, and making extra money. And I'm instead of your money sitting on your checking account earning zero or your savings account earning 0.7 or your high yield savings earning 1.4 or a CD earning 3.5, I can show you mathematically you will save more per month by storing it on your first lien HELOF than you're making in those other entities. Are you tracking with me on that? So now you better believe I'm absolutely dumping my money on it. Because people go, I can just do the same thing on my mortgage. I'm like, go for it. If you dump all your money on your mortgage and something happens. Bro, and the bank's foreclosing your home every time. If you don't pay your payment, right? Right. You put all your capital on there. I on day one, I had $35,000 in my emergency fund. I was I was doing the Dave Ramsey stuff, which I'm so funny now. I took the $35,000, I put it on top of the home. I started saving money instead of. Still there instead of just the savings account. So it's saving me more than it was making in my savings account. I actually wasn't wise. I liquidated $20,000 in my stocks. I put I was dumping. I was like, I'm gonna I want to watch this work. So $50,000, that's where it came from right there. But I had access to that $50,000. So I use that $50,000 to start my rental portfolio. And as long as I'm loaning it out, I don't care if it's 2% or 7% or 8%. But I never had I've never had above a seven, I've had seven and a quarter is the highest I've had. Let's say I've loaned it out at seven and a quarter, but but I'm making a 14% return on it while someone else is paying my home off for me. That's the definition of interest arbitrage. I'm loaning it out and I'm making that return on it while someone else is paying my home off for me. So that's the I mean, and there and I I'm not trying to leave a like a flyer here or a hook. There are hundreds of ways you can you can do this. It's it we have to make sure that you have the right type of mindset, the right type of client, the right type of cash flow, all those things. If someone comes in with a 540 credit score, it ain't gonna work. Um or if they're if they're not making money, it's not gonna work, you know, those things.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Let me ask this. Let's go back to your example. The the house was value that you said 400,000, you put on 20, puts you at what, 320? Yeah, that access to 70. Access to 70, you transfer that into the HELOC, which releases the mortgage itself because now it's a HELOC.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

The mortgage is gone.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

What was the payment on the mortgage?

SPEAKER_01 30:23

So the mortgage was $1,600. It was $16,000 something, and I was paying $18. So I was putting that about about $200 extra bucks a month.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

When you transfer to a HELOC, what was the payment on the HELOC?

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Can I pull up my phone for a calculator real quick?

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Yeah, of course. Yeah, we're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

Break down some real numbers here, because yeah, because I'm gonna give you that, I don't want to give you a fluffy answer. So at a at the time, let's just average out, let's I'll do the 2.99 rate instead of the 0.99. And actually, I wouldn't do the 2.99 rate. Let's do a uh current mortgage. Let's just do like a let's do six. Okay, six. Okay, something like that. So if I do uh what was the balance? 25250, but I transferred 50,000 over, remember? So let's just say 50,000 so it's 200,000.

unknown 30:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Zero one. It's about $38 a day, $1,140 per month with a 6.5% mortgage. $1,000. So I'm already saving about six, seven hundred bucks a month, but I'm not just saving it and putting in my savings account. I'm keeping it there.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

That's just the I of the P I T I, or that is the whole P I T I still?

SPEAKER_01 31:19

That's everything. So you're you're sorry, that's your that's your interest only. I only I only do with interest only. I don't want uh I don't want if a bank says we do a 1% principal, I won't bank with them. So I want interest only. Your taxes and insurance, I'm gonna withhold them for 11 and a half months. I have a very expensive December every year. Right. But that 11 and a half months, that money was working for me against the balance every single day, literally. That's like non-exaggeration. Every 24 hours, it's sitting on my balance against it. And if I have a better place to put it that can earn me more, then I'm gonna put it in one of those entities. If I have a real estate property with me, I do a lot of price, I don't know how much y'all know about debt private lending structures. I do a lot of that. And so I'm like, man, I can get a promissory note at 13%. That's not rich money, but that's good money, and I can lend it out, and when I get it back, I'm putting it right back on my HELOC.

SPEAKER_06 32:10

A lot of questions.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

This is no, I mean, this is the if any of your listeners are actually listening. I mean, that I mean I love this stuff. Don't but it it it is to I know you guys are gurus of what you do. Please hear me though. Like I'm telling you, I I talk to presidents of banks who I've had to articulate this to on multiple, multiple calls. Uh it's not uncommon.

SPEAKER_03 32:30

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SPEAKER_01 33:24

I I got taught. So uh Nelson Nash, the guy who became your own bank. I don't know if you ever heard of that, that he was a a guru with business. He uh taught a mentor that ended up teaching me the same strategy. So I bought into the program, learned, and I was like, all I learned was really the inter uh the difference between simple interest and compounding interest is not the best word, but it it's amortized interest count, whatever you want to say. Uh you're you're still paying on that original note. But the HELOC is recasted daily based off of the principal balance owed. So you can manipulate that constantly. So I learned these strategies and I was like, man, I know a guy who helps with the in the, you know, a really good tax strategist. He's a CPA, but he's also a strategist who helps with depreciation, things y'all are very familiar with. I know a guy who does is into private lending who's been telling me for years if you have at least $25,000 to put into these investments, you know, they'll they'll pay you for that. So these are I had these partnerships and I personally put my money in there before I told a soul. So I'm loaning out $25,000, making money on it. Then I put out $50,000, I'm making money on it. I put out $100,000, I'm making money on it while I'm doing these sales. All of a sudden I look, I look up, you know, I'm like, oh my gosh, my home's paid off. Don't get me wrong. I I put it to zero to prove a point, and I took that I took money right back and I bought more rental properties because I don't I don't want to retire it at the time 38 or 40 years old.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

So if we had to dumb this down really, really I hope I'm not totally talking over one cell. I'm just trying to think from the viewer's standpoint. If somebody came across this podcast and was maybe looking to get into real estate or maybe done one or two rentals, but this is, you know, we get this lingo, but a lot of this is probably over honestly, a lot of people's heads. So if we had to just really, really break it down. In very simple terms, you have an asset, which is your home. You're going to go get a four first mortgage HELOC on it, which would then generate you access to some cash, right? Depending on the equity that you have in it. Yes, sir. With that, you're going to go find another opportunity, whatever it may be, in our case, rental properties. Rental properties then pay you a little bit more than what you're earning. You take that little bit more and you apply it down towards the original balance, which then pays it down faster. And that's the in a nutshell in a 30-second elevator pitch, that's more or less the pitch.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

That was very well said, seriously. Uh, you also, if you're even not a real estate person, like if you do none of the investments uh for the right cash flow and uh credit score, it's still gonna beat the mortgage because you now have a place. What does everybody in the country do when they get paid? Like 99% or 100% you get paid, it goes to your checking account. Right. So now instead of going to a checking account, you can actually have it working for you every day that it sits on top of the first lien ELOC. So even people who don't use the strategy at all.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

I'm gonna explain that part of it. For everyday people and they did that strategy, how does it work for them? If they don't understand, hey, how does this working for me? How does it, I guess what's the difference?

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Let's just I'm trying to make it as simple as math. You owe $100,000 left on your home, okay? And you make $10,000 a month. So let's just let's just pretend everything's perfect. But it really the days won't matter a whole lot. Let's say you get paid on the first of the month, $10,000, you put all $10,000 on the HELOC. And you're like, well, why would you do that? I'm gonna show you why you do that. So now your balance has come down to $90,000, right? It's gonna calculate interest for the next $29, 30 days on $90,000 because that's where your money is being stored. So it's saving you that $10,000 just because you make that amount. But let's say you say, okay, but Tyler, I spend $7,000 in a month. Well, uh, but $2,000 of that was your mortgage. I don't have a mortgage anymore. So now your expenditures are only $5,000. Are you still tracking with me? Let's say, let's say uh say your expenditures are $6,000. Everything's $6,000. You're gonna put everything on a credit card for the month that you can. Uh for me, outside of tithing and like my water bill, everything goes on a credit card. I go against API.

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Now you can still tithe with credit cards. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Exactly. So, anyways, you put six thousand uh on in your expenses at the end of the month. Now that six thousand comes due, let's just say perfect world January 30th. I pay that 6,000 out, my balance goes up to 9,000 uh 96,000. Are we all together? So now there's one day it's gonna run interest at 96,000. But what's about to happen the next day? I'm about to get paid again. So now it's gonna go down to 86,000. So 29 of the days it rented at 90,000. One day it rented at 96,000, and then the next month it's gonna run at 86,000. So we've done no real estate deals whatsoever. We're just simply storing our money in a better vehicle. And I I wanna I just want to keep stressing this. This is for people who have a good credit score.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Can you be making at least 100k a year? What do you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 37:44

No, I mean we got people who make 60,000 a year. It's way easier when you're making 100k a year. I uh if someone's making less than 48,000, I'm like, that's they're not gonna be ready yet. But and those are I actually have a I have a client coming up soon that's in that that ballpark. But I like I won't bring them onto my consulting firm out of out of the just being, I don't hope this doesn't sound rude out of the headache, it's gonna be if I can't help them. So if someone's like, man, I want to get that HELUX, I'm gonna go buy an RV, I'm gonna go buy a boat, and I'm like, nope, wrong company. Like literally, wrong company. So this isn't sitting on rice and beans like that that that that what we're taught from Dave Ramsey either, but this is you using your funds the wisest way possible every day. So your elevator pitch was right, but I want you to understand that like most of my clients are not real estate people, they're normal mom and pop people, normal businesses, and you know, and I have like other tools we can utilize to help get credit up or get business funding. I mean, there's yeah, so much that goes with us as far as like rate stacking and using credit cards to bring the balance down and all sorts of stuff too.

SPEAKER_04 38:39

Let me ask you this. So, for a lot of our viewers, they are real estate guys, and a lot of them are just doing rentals. The basic, you know, buy one house, hopefully in a couple years you save up enough down payment to buy another one. So now you've got two or three of us. Let's say you've got an investor who has three rental properties. Okay. They're all rented out, they're maybe, I don't know, one to two years into their term, you know, there's not a lot of equity, there's not really much going on. They put, you know, maybe 10 or 20% down depending on what their financing situation was to start. But let's say they've got 10 or 20% in equity right off the bat, right? And they've got three properties that are probably breaking even. Most houses aren't cash loan, you know, more than 100 bucks or 50 bucks or whatever nowadays. So if they're in that situation, how would your program help those guys and what could they do to get creative?

SPEAKER_01 39:21

It's a great question. Uh, and I agree with you. Like I like my the doors I told you I have, I just I just sold four uh literally two weeks ago, and I'm trying to sell six more because I'm like, it's it's not cash flow on the way I want it to right now, and I'd rather have some stuff in Texas. But um for that person who's who's let's say you said they have one or two rentals. One or two. I would want to start with their primary home first. So I'm gonna say before we even look at your real real estate portfolio, let's address your primary. Because if we start looking at their investment side first, we could get them upside down. So I don't, but I'll even go as far as to say this whatever question most people ask me on like, what are the, what's the what's the risk, um, what's the what could go wrong, I always say please ask yourself first in your current situation. If you're in a mortgage and you don't pay for three or four months, they foreclose it. Six months, right? They foreclose it. And a HELOC, if you have access to capital, I literally left my job, W 2, and I had access to a few hundred thousand dollars at that point in my home, right? So my backup plan was if I don't make any money, it's only gonna draw interest only out of your $1,100 a month. Can I live off that? You better believe it till I can hustle enough to get above that line. Yeah. So that I would say we start with the primary first to address that before we look at the the real estate side of it. Got it. The investing side of it.

SPEAKER_03 40:35

I have to pay my primary off. Yeah, heck yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Dude, it's to pay my primary off. Yeah, I I've I've had conversations like this with people before. Like, I'm not I'm genuinely not trying to sell you something, but once I I hear their scenario, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like it it puts uh the guy I told you about before we started this podcast, it's putting 21,000 extra a month in his checking account instantly. Just it? Huh?

SPEAKER_03 40:55

Just by storing his money into that into a HELOC type of deal?

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 40:59

Instead of just sitting.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Yep. Absolutely. He he's he's wealthy.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

What's the average rate of a HELOC in today's market? The rate?

SPEAKER_01 41:06

So it's normally so you have two things. It's normal it's normally tied to prime, and then you'll have a plus or minus, just like mortgages. What you'll see on all the Facebook Burr, all these things, they're gonna say they're eight, nine, twelve. They're talking about second-lean HELOCs. First lien HELOCs, we see the same thing as prime plus or minus based on credit score. That's why I like your credit score to be high enough. So you had a 750. If I go get a prime, uh yeah, 750, you'd get prime minus a quarter of prime right now. Or you can get into a promo. I have banks right now I work with that have 4.5. That's the lowest I have right now. Uh, and I but I but it that's pretty daggum good considering where we are in our country right now. But yeah, normally prime, or you have uh sofa secured overnight funding right rate, or it's tied tied to a six-month T bill, stuff like that. You have some unique credit unions to do different rates and stuff like that. But they're not you're not paying for the closing for 80% of our banks, you're not paying for closing fees either. Or if you are, it's like uh it's pennies on the dollar compared to the two or three points you pay on a mortgage or or whatever that might be.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

So we pay off primary, you paid off a quarter million dollars in three years. At that point, when'd you say, hey, this is I got something here, I fully understand this method. What's next for Tyler?

SPEAKER_01 42:13

I six months into it, uh this way my brain's working. I'm I'm not the the sharpest guy, not claiming that. But if I get something, you good luck making me shut up about it. Like same with Jesus. I I'm passionate about Jesus, I'm gonna tell you about the Lord if you if you ask me. Um, but I start I understood it within six months. And and but that's what's funny. I try to teach this to someone in an hour phone call, and it took me six months to truly believe it. You know what I'm saying? So I that that that started the whole process. Um I I'm passionate about it because I know what it can do. Even like I told you guys, the 400 clients I've attained and the 100 in the last year that are uh joined my community. The the phone call I uh uh on the way over here, a guy called me and it's just like there's a friendship, and it's like, man, he's like, what do I what do I do with this uh car I'm about to buy? That's where it gets fun. I'm like, dude, you have plenty of plenty enough equity instead of paying 800 bucks a month for your car, you're gonna pay 222 bucks a month by wrapping into your HELOC. So he's gonna pay it off because he's at that place. He can he can do that. So it's changing their their life decisions. And my goal is to get that, I don't want them in, I don't like consumer debt. So I'm I'm very much in agreement with your Dave Ramsey's on that type of stuff. But I do believe in good debt. I believe in the parable of the talents and leveraging what we have wisely. So for me, it's like truly trying to be an uh educate people on something that other people are charging for. Uh, don't get me wrong, I charge for my consulting services, but even the stuff I've shared with you guys today, I'm not trying to be like silly. You won't see free online. Like I'm sharing this because it changed my life. This is stuff I paid for, and now I'm like, I want to, I want to gain the trust and rapport of people and then go, all right, can I take you on a little bit of a journey that we can get way deeper with this where you can become your own real estate guy or get into private lending or that debt consolidating with solo 401ks and all that other stuff?

SPEAKER_03 43:54

So your consulting service is providing services, which is what is this method called? What would you term design? Or what would you coin this process?

SPEAKER_01 44:05

I mean, and that's not I'm not the first person to say that. Um, but become your own bank, that's why I use the words the art of leverage. Um, so it's just it's a mindset shift. If you've been taught since 1913, mortgage, mortgage, mortgage, which fun fact, means death pledge. Look it up. Literally means death pledge. Yeah. Mortgage, death pledge. So if that doesn't tell scream scam, yeah, I I think you'll both get this, but what what's so saddening? I I move on quick, but people think that we're out here scamming people, and my team genuinely is trying to help people.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

I was actually my next question.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Dude.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

I was actually my next question. Everyone, this guy's telling me I could pay off my primary mortgage. I don't have uh a good paying job to do, so sounds like a scam. What is it what exactly is a consultant? How do you combat that? And how do you change someone's mindset? Whatever you're doing with this HELOC program, how do you change someone's mindset to really understand? Hey, think outside the box.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

If you're not teachable, you won't become a client. If you, I always say choose curiosity over cynicism. So I'm I'm curious by nature. Like if if if if the tables are reversed, I would be asking you guys a hundred questions. I'm telling you, I'm gonna learn whatever, I'm gonna soak up whatever knowledge you have because you guys know things that I don't know. And if you go into any minds, any meeting going, I'm a financial advisor, so I've already learned, I'm like, you don't know mortgages. Financial advisors aren't taught mortgages, CPAs aren't taught mortgages. So I get on calls, people, and they're like, I'm gonna go talk to my financial advisor. I'm like, good luck. He's gonna tell you it's a scam. He's gonna tell you he hadn't heard of it. He hasn't studied this. I was like, I've not exaggerating. I've spent thousands of hours at this point studying the nuances of this. So I don't feel the need to prove to you that I'm that it's not a scam. To say that uh three years is normal, that's not normal. The average client is five to seven years, though. Like, truly, the average client saves 140,000 in interest, truly.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

That was my next question. That was the average. I've client.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

I've had clients who saved over over 500,000 in interest. So there's all these things. I in the in your blue-collar average people, I'm looking for people in who are making, you know, $75,000 plus and have a balance under $500,000. If they come to me with a $700,000 home, which I have clients like that, they better be making good money. Or of course it's not gonna work. But their mortgage didn't work in either. They're paying it for 30 years. So that's you gotta get people over like the the that's what my webinars teach is like this is how this started. This if I ask you guys, like, do you think that the bank is really concerned about like in your best interest when they give you a mortgage? No. Why are they calling you every five to seven years to refinance it? It's all the clock. It's all over and I've heard all the strategies of well, I I'm taking my extra money, Tyler, and I'm investing in stocks and crypto and real estate. I'm like, great, me too. I'm doing the exact same thing as you are. But mine actually works for me every day without fail because it's sitting on against a daily recasted interest.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

Going through this motion of the uh consulting services and understanding this HELOC and the power of it, you know, what's one really good mindset or one system you have in place? Like, man, this is what allowed me to scale or to kind of improve this uh consultation process and really teach others doing this method.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

That's a great question. Um, I don't know if there's been one specific thing other than what I just told you. I I truly try to remain teachable through everything that that comes at me. And uh I also take words very literally. So some people, you know, they throw out words humble and all and teachable. I'm like, when I say teachable, I mean truly have a heart that is uh open to maybe I'm seeing this wrong. Maybe I'm maybe I don't understand appreciation, maybe I don't understand how the homestead exemption works in Texas. Like there's things I don't know. And so I'm gonna ask the masters of those things. And so we tell our clients from the from the jump, this is gonna go against the grain. Your smartest, and I say this intentionally, your smartest financial people in your life, if you go ask them, they're gonna tell you to run. Because they've not learned this one niche. But if they were humble enough, and I will say, please bring them on the next call. And the few people who've taken me up on this, not trying to sound cocky, they become a client too, like the person they bring on the call. I'm like, if you'll let them actually listen, they will, they, they will understand what we're doing. So it's just the mindset would be teachability and understanding that like for me, it's the hard makes you better, the narrow road. If I'm going to to a movie theater or on the road, I'm looking for the lane that's has the less cars in the line, and I'm not following the crowd. I'm not following the herd mentality.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

So going down this lane you're talking about, right? Going through ins and outs and opsy was ever more convenient for you at the same time that makes sense with the ROI. Going through this whole motion and understanding this process was something you learned the hard way doing all this.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 48:45

One big mistake or one thing you really learned the hard way of doing what you're doing. It's like, man, I wish this would have happened. What are the case may be?

SPEAKER_01 48:51

So where uh the layers that I have that it should it would just be we could do seven podcasts on this, but the layers that I've added to help pay the home off faster include these like private partnerships, or even there's a private family office I work with in Bernie, Texas, and those types of things, right? Uh I've told my wife recently, I've been doing this, it'll be full time finally in July of this year. I I truly feel like I got about 20 years of experience in the last two years. I mean, from making a bad partnership uh early from offering uh affiliated for other people when I thought something was a great deal where my own money was that didn't go well. Um and the pain that that caused me mentally, emotionally, of like, I mean, if you if you care about people, I mean, I'm not not all pastors are good by any means. And so I'm not I'm not claiming that, but my heart for pastoralship was I cared about people. And to watch people not get what I thought they would get or see like a real estate deal not go as it was supposed to, has been a lot of that's probably with a little bit of gray on my chin's coming in. Is it's it's been painful because I I want to bless people, I want to help people. But I'll tell you this: I don't have one opportunity that I offer that I don't have my own money in that I'm not vetted personally. So I would never offer something that I I don't know about myself. But I would say that's been very hard. Um, losing friends, even though they don't tell you I'm done with you, but like uh the lack of support. This is so stupid, I'm about to say this. The lack of support on social media. I mean, going from a place where, yeah, as a pastor, I mean, you can post something and everyone likes it and shares it. I'm gonna get thousands of views and hundreds of likes. And then I start posting HELOC stuff, and it started with decent, and it's just gone down to like, you know, the four people that are that will like it, but I get the phone calls still, I get the text messages still, they're still watching. I've got clients in almost every state in the country. It's like I'm gaining over a hundred plus people every month on YouTube. Like it's working, it's just the facade and all that is not fun to go through.

SPEAKER_04 50:42

What do you think is the reasoning behind that? Why would they support a pastor more than they would more the same person just doing business, right? What do you think is behind that?

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Man, psychologically, I don't know. I think a lot of it is probably people I think it's people's own insecurities. What I've learned in the business world that I've loved, most of my business people are the more supportive ones, are the ones who are like, dude, go get it. Like, I want to see you win. Because we're all kind of fighting the same type of like if if we have the right heart, we're we're just trying to help people and we're trying to win and win with our families and help those around us. And I think some people in the church uh either don't understand that mindset or think it's for some stupid social media fame or some crap. It's like, I don't, that's not natural to me. I don't, I don't need, I don't need people to like me on social media. I want to help as many families as possible. So that that's why I'm fueling it.

SPEAKER_04 51:28

I'm trying to apply it to us because there's a there's past I've I watched so much stuff on this, but there's you know, Joel Osteen, right? He just did a podcast with uh Logan Paul and those guys. And you know, the question for him was how much salary do you make from the church? You take zero salary from the church, yet he's still worth hundreds of millions of dollars because of book sales, because of speaking gigs and media companies he has and blah blah blah, whatever. You know, then you've got like the T.D. Jakes of the world who just retired after, you know, being America's pastor for however many years, 30 years, and you know, kind of the same thing. I don't know if he's actually going off into business and doesn't want to promote it too much, but it seems like he's doing something in the business world, right? Um But I'm trying to think for us, if Pastor Ed were to retire tomorrow and go do XYZ clothing brand, go do XYZ, whatever, I feel like we would still support because we have created that connection to him, we know and love him. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 52:18

I mean I guess Would he get the same support? I don't think he I think he would in the beginning, but then he eventually fade away.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Oh, do you see it'll fade away. Because they don't know your motives.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Yeah. I like you said earlier, and you know, I don't want to get into this pastor stuff, but someone being a pastor, if you're the face of the church, I mean it's kind of scary. Elevated, like you said. I don't know. I don't think some past I guess maybe people are people, right? Yeah, yeah. Pastor or no pastor, people are people. I would assume they get egotistic, kind of big headed, and you know, can't touch me, kind of type of deal. And then once they shift and move on, that kind of goes away. It's just like pop culture.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

Here's what I think. To your point in pop culture. Jerry Seinfeld, he's Seinfeld for 20 years. If he goes and tries to make two or three movies afterwards, he's probably not gonna get the support of Seinfeld because you are or whatever the whatever the character is. If you're a kid, if you're a character in a certain movie or a certain TV show for X amount of years, and then you go to the Harry Potter kid, he tries to go do other movies, and it's like, well, you heard it.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Your identity unintentionally becomes worship pastor Tyler or Pastor, whatever it is. And I'll I'll I'll say what I what I've seen. The reason I've I'm like, I'm not slowing down, like I'm going full steam ahead, is my ministry has grown. Like the fact that I can say I have clients in literally, I'm not almost every state in the country, that's a cool thing that the Lord's doing. And but the thing is it's not advertised now, it's not publicized. So they don't they don't know what's going on behind closed doors, and I don't feel the need to be like, look at me. But I believe business has been going on since the beginning. Like God is the the the all the the great strategies that are in business, the ways, the art of leverage, the ways we actually steward money well, it came from our creator. Like we're not smarter than the creator, it came from him. And I believe that we're moving into a generation where we need true, godly businessmen, not people who use God's name for monetary gain.

SPEAKER_04 54:05

Man, they're out there.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

A lot of them. And there's this prosperity gospel. So one thing I'm trying to coin too is the poverty gospel is the other side of that, where you go, we're not allowed to have money and follow Jesus. And and people will say the love of money is root of all evil. I'm like, it's like we got to be careful with what what we take in and out of scripture and stuff like that. So I think we need godly businessmen who are actually operating the right way with integrity and doing the right things all the time.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

Godly businessmen who's operating and doing things the right way.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

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SPEAKER_04 55:40

Hit into that for two seconds. So the part, not that part, but the part where you said you're trying to coin the opposite of the prosperity gospel. So you're trying to teach people to make a lot of money, but not to have a lot of money.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

So no, okay. Uh we're by nature, people are reactionary, right? It's like uh we get emotional. There's a thing out there called prosperity gospel. Have you all heard of that? Okay. No, break it down for me. Okay, prosperity gospel is there's a lot of, and I won't even name drop, but there are pastors at the 90s. Yeah, and there's still that are just made that's all about personal fame, personal wealth, and if you follow Jesus, you're gonna be wealthy, which is nowhere in the Bible. It doesn't say if you follow Jesus, you're gonna be wealthy. Uh and wealth is different than rich, that's a different sermon right there. But my my uh self identity and everything is found and rooted in Christ, not how much money I have. And I believe he gives to those who will actually steward well what they've been given. I believe 100% of what I have comes from God. All of it. My house, my money, my talents, my moat, everything is his. So how do I steward it well? What's happened in the church, especially in the southern church where we live, Florida, Texas, Alabama, is there's a there's a reaction to prosperity gospel. I believe the prosperity gospel is sin. It's not of God. And so instead of that, they're going, that's so wrong. So we're not allowed to have money. The money is the root of all evil. It's like, no, the love of money is the root of all evil. And you look at the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, they were all wealthy.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

Solomon.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

Yeah, well, Solomon the richest ever. So the wealth is not the crime, but it but it it is, it is um dangerous because wealth can make you think you don't uh you just pay for your problems to go away. So I'm not I'm not alluding to the fact that money is not dangerous because I think it is dangerous, but we need godly people who will steward it well to actually be generous, not just show their videos of them being generous, but behind closed doors being generous.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

So what I talk about is some of them aren't even generous, dude. What? Some of them aren't even generous.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

Exactly. That's why I've the poverty gospel is that other mindset.

SPEAKER_04 57:31

I'll call them out. You ever heard of Jesse DePlannis? Oh, yeah. Kenneth Copeland. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:36

Yes, sir. I agree with you. I agree with you.

SPEAKER_05 57:39

You call in right now and you pledge that pledge in 1999, 1,999. You're gonna have 1,999 days of prosperity. It's like, bro, what? It's sick.

SPEAKER_01 57:47

I think it's demonic. I mean, it's sick. It's it's the the ruler of the world, you know, Satan.

SPEAKER_03 57:51

What's that guy that bought that plane? What's the name of the old that Chris?

SPEAKER_01 57:54

That's Kenneth Copeland.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

Kenneth Copeland, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Who's that young guy? Uh he's been a he's been a big missionary, and he just interviewed him. First interview he's done like 15 years. Young one? Yeah. He goes around the and spread the gospel everywhere real boldly. This young this young kid, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Yeah. Plonair. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

Yeah, I know you're talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 58:10

But he just did up. Thoughts about him? Do I? What do you thought about him? I like him. Overall.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

You can tell, right? I try to be like, I really do try to give everyone benefit of the doubt. If you don't know him, we're just don't we're just seeing a 30 cent clip of somebody and judging. Yeah. I really try to be careful.

SPEAKER_04 58:25

I will say, so I grew up in the church. I mean, deep. Okay. All of us served. I mean, I was the audio video guy, played piano, my sister was a drummer, brother was drummer, sister was singer, dad was like deacon, the whole thing. So I mean I've seen the front and the back side of it, the business side and this, I get it. And I will say, huge shout out to our pastor, Pastor Ed Newton. Um, you can tell this guy is a genuine, he could make whatever salary he wanted to, I'm sure. The church is very, you know, wealthy, as you know. They buy buildings and do things like that. And he is the most humble dude ever. He was given a message yesterday talking about when his car was in the shop, he just Ubered everywhere. He doesn't have and he's got like a Toyota forerunner. I thought he's got some crazy, crazy car. So shout out to uh to Pastor Ed and uh and to his family. They are from just what I can see, I don't know him super well, I wouldn't have a personal relationship or anything, but just what I can see, um, he does do a very good job of not getting that big ego. He is a very down-to-earth, humble servant who uh I mean his in all his time is is dedicated to to ministry, whether it's here or traveling around the country doing different speaking gigs. So I love that. Shout out to him, he's he's definitely been.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

I'd say that, but for the just to be clear, the church I was a last at that I'm not it was never against that church. My pastor was amazing, one of the most humble men you'll ever meet. Um but the things in the I'm when I say the church, I'm talking about the yeah, the whole church.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

So man, so we definitely talked a lot right from 20 years of pastor, but that whole Helock deal, that that's really perplexing, is mind-blowing to understand once you break it down, right? Yeah. I like the part where of course the first thing's cool, but I like the part where you're saving more money than you're making. And I think that's gonna go over a lot of people's heads. I do too. So I think they need to really understand the the value of just that one sentence alone on where the money sits. I mean, that's that's a really cool statement. That's a really cool fact. Um and I think you answered the question earlier, but how's the case studies looking? What's you said the average case study they're saving how much?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

About $140,000 in interest average.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:18

And how fast are they paying off the houses?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:20

Between five to eight years on a 30 year mortgage. On a 30 year mortgage. But they might come in with only 16 left or 27. Yeah, that's true. So, but man, I have to I have many clients. I'm telling you that you don't believe this, but pay it off in less than a year because they're they're already real positioned. Yeah. And it's like, or I get someone who has a hundred and fifty thousand dollar mortgage left and they have 150,000 sitting in a checking account, and I'm like, dude, do you realize how much you could be saving per month? Yeah, I don't want to lose it. I'm like, you don't lose it. You have full access to it. To it, yeah. Yeah. And so it's just little nuances like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:49

It's really thinking outside the box.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

It is. And I I don't uh claim to I wasn't the master of it. I I feel like the the tools God's given me around it are what what I I kind of add to the to the program.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:00

I think I know the answer to this, but do you know much about subject two?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

Uh not near what you guys know, but I know what subject two. Um I have a client, it it can get very messy, especially in Texas. So it's way harder. And it as long as we're using their primary to to fund it, they can they can purchase whatever they want, but it would not the subject two thinking make it very messy, get blurry percent.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:27

So you say they're primary, meaning you have to live there, it has to be your primary residence, you can't be on a secondary property.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

You can do rental homes, but you're gonna get less than 80% loan to value. You're gonna get 65, 70, maybe 60% loan to value. So I don't get into that. And like I'll tell you, I I did tell you I'd never have another mortgage personally. My rental properties all have mortgages on them because someone else is paying it for me. Yeah. So I'm fine with that. And so with the subject to, that's one of the I I don't know enough in that world to to give you a really confident answer. So I don't want to I don't want to mislead anybody.

unknown 1:01:57

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

Well, this is the uh Trump the Hustle podcast. Now, Trump the Hustle, to me, it's not a it's not a motto, it's not a slogan, it's really a way of life. What does Trump the hustle mean to Tyler?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:08

Trump the hustle, man. I'm I'm a like I said, I'm a hustler, baby.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

I started that song. That's a bunch you didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Uh so I I can't uh one of my things that way God made me, um, I used to think it was like a curse, but I I'm never really settled. So it talks about in the Bible being content in all things and learning to be content in Christ. But my unsettledness is I'm never satisfied. So no matter what I attain or whatever I build, I'm always I'm just very eager to to use the resources God's given me. And I really go back to this stewarding well, not just my money. So if He's given me a passion to love on people and help people and educate people, can I push through the people who think that think it's a scam? Can I push through the people who talk bad about me? Can I push through and the I believe the answer is yes? Like I'm like, I'm not stopping. The more you hate, the more it fuels me to be like, I'm gonna prove that this works with more and more and more people. So to me, it's like it's go time every day of again, I don't do the 5 a.m. sauna and cold plunge. Me neither. Me neither. But but uh it's just uh I'm driven by something that's a uh bigger than just building my name. Like I I honestly, and that's why my original uh the hard makes you better was to try to get my name off of it, truly. Um, but Hennessy uh is a pretty cool ass name. Uh and so uh and because of some of the just the ways that branding got started, it just kind of clicked, and so we use Hennessy Consulting as the main thing right now. But it's like, yeah, that that's how it works.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:40

Gotta get a pastor question for you. Okay, what you got, bro? Uh what's your favorite Bible verse?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

I have I have quite a few. Um, so I actually did one of these recently. Um, so I'm thinking, sorry, I'm I I literally have like 20 minutes. But it's like it's going to rapid fire in my head, but I I I actually did a video on this, so I'm trying to remember which one I said. Um but I'm but what keeps coming to my mind right now is Romans 12. It says, Therefore I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices living sacrifices, sorry, uh holy and pleasing to the Lord. This is your true and pro proper worship. Do not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you'll be able to test and approve what is good and pleasing to God. So I think that's something that is uh definitely uh overarching. I'm sorry I stumbled over that, but we do Bible verses with my kids every morning, and I just had everyone that we're going through.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

Yeah, to break that down in simple little terms for several.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:36

So don't conform don't conform to the pattern of this of this world. So even though even especially going from pastoralship to business, um I don't want to try to act like somebody else or emulate what I think they're doing to be worldly successful. I'm like, if the Lord's gonna allow what I'm doing to truly be whatever level of successful, I want it to be pure, like truly pure. And that people that meet me are like, dude, what he says is what he believes is who he is. I believe my whole team currently would say that. And so I want my motives to be pure, not following the world, but but being transformed by the renewing of my mind. So I renew my mind by reading scripture. I renew my mind by praying every morning and throughout the day. It says, pray without ceasing and everything, give thanks for this will of God for those who are in Christ Jesus. Uh that's another life verse of mine. So uh it's always renewing my mind to be because that's where my peace comes from, man. Like I wrestle with stuff like everybody else. I get discouraged like everybody else. I have all the the attacks, but I try to renew my mind through scripture daily.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:39

This next question I will judge you on based on your answer. I just thought of a verse, by the way, with that. But go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

Whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God the Father through him. Whatever you do, do it as under the Lord. Whatever you do. That's like and I'm uh that's why I was stumbling so bad. I'm like, why is this? That's the one you want. Yeah, that's what I wanted. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:00

On your answer. What is your favorite movie?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:02

Oh man. So remember the Titans is up there, believe it or not. I like the good sports movie. And uh Shawshank Redemption's up there. Have you seen Shawshank?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

Long time ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

Shawshank's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:13

Um why why remember the Titans? Desda Washington.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:16

I I love I love being pushed. So I guess I I like I like hard things, but like as far as like accountability. I want people in my life that love me. If someone loves you enough to like call you out and it's not like they're not just hating on you, like that's hard to find. People that actually want like what's best for Scott or what's best for Mike. And so I like that in the movie of watching one, it's like a movie about racism and people but people coming together, they prejudge one another. They have these predetermined ideas, but they had to go through a mindset shift. That's cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:45

Yeah, so I mean a bus and they go to camp. Yeah, bro. Yeah, Superman versus uh great movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

Or The Pursuit of Happiness with Will Smith, that's a great one too. What's yours? I gotta lie, this is your show.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:55

Now being a pastor, if we had to kind of pick that room, what's the favorite movie? God movie, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

Oh man, dude. I don't know. I mean, uh there's been a few, like there are a lot of them are a little bit cheesier, but they still have like great stories. Have you seen The Forge? Forge, yeah. Uh The Forge is really good like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:16

They go do them as a life mentor.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

Yes, sir. That's a discipleship movie. That's a great one.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:20

I like how you say it's cheesy. Unfortunately. Unfortunately, a lot of the the It is. The the budgets and the production.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:26

That's the one that's it for sure. So yeah, I mean there's not a lot of great Christian movies out there, in my opinion. Passion. Yeah, I mean, I'd rather just I'd rather read it than watch it. I don't want to watch it. Tears me up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:38

I think they're coming out with the sequel or something. Apparently, something's going on. Yeah. I don't know. After he resurrected or something like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

I will tell you, like, again, I got licensed and did the whole thing and went through seminary, but I'm not your typical. I took it as a compliment back in the day, and they're like, I know I would have never guessed you're a pastor. I'm like, praise God. They think I'm a normal dude. And I'm not blasting pastors, but I wanted to be able to hang with normal people and love on them.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:01

I've got one last question for you. We almost started touching on it earlier, but let's do the Dave Ramsey. Mm-hmm. You are the Bible verse for people's reference is that you are slave to the lender. But you also gave another parable of the talents, which for those who don't know the parable of the talents is basically the master gave three different service servants the same amount of talents or dollars. They he then left for X amount of days, comes back. First guy says, I did nothing with it, I buried it so I wouldn't lose it. And here you go, here's what I gave you. Second guy says I doubled it. Second guy says I, you know, 10x it or whatever the number was. And he was very pleased with the first guy, pleased with the second guy, and the other guy was not only was he not pleased with him, but he said, You are getting cast out and like basically your disgrace. So, like you said, that technically was leverage because it was borrowed money and they went out and did something with it, right? And so, how do you merge both worlds?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

How do we get Dave to believe in good debt and how do we get Well Dave's Dave's probably never gonna shift an opinion for his entire life? I mean, he is hard set. And I I'm not a hater. Like I actually told me, I like Dave Ramsey. I like what he teaches about being away from consumer debt, uh, but I also believe he's one of the biggest reasons people middle class America.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:12

Like you said, he's so buttoned that's his life. There's no way he can change it 70 years old or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:16

But I think he keeps middle class America broke, if you want me to be very blunt. I think he doesn't give them free when you're 70, you know, and it's like, uh I don't know. So to talk about both both sides of that, one fun fact, uh, because you'll hear this in church, they'll say, one day when I get to heaven, I want to hear well done, good and faithful servant. Have you heard that before? Do you know the only time that's mentioned in the entire Bible?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:39

I actually don't. I don't know. I've heard it a million times.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:41

It's in the parable of the talents, when they're talking about money. It's not talking about salvation when you get to heaven. Which I want to hear God say well done, right? We want to hear that. But when it says well done, good and faithful servant, is when the servant leveraged and used the money wisely. So that's powerful, first of all. I don't think we have to uh I don't want to try to take one scripture here and one scripture here. I think that can get out of context and eisegesis where you're reading yourself, you know, misinterpreting the text. But I would say uh there's obvious things. I I don't want to be in debt to anybody. I don't want to owe someone money on a credit card or my vehicle. So I we pay those things in cash with my family now. To utilize um, so I take a much bigger emergency fund. If you go to the average person, they don't have large emergency funds. I used to have a $30,000 one, now I keep at least $100,000 on my HELOC. So now past that number, if it's just sitting there, it's dead money. It's not doing anything. Why not have that used to leverage wisely, to build more wealth or gain more assets to help others do those types of things? So for me, I use the parable of the talent to say, let's use it wisely. If you're not there yet and you're in consumer debt, we're not even gonna have that conversation. I'm gonna say, let's get you out of debt first. Let's get your mindset shifted. Maybe let's get you into a solo 401k to consolidate debt and teach you to pay yourself back. All those things before we even get to that next step. But I would say uh just because there's two things that seem to be competing in scripture, which there's multiple uh things like this, doesn't mean they're not both accurate. Like I think two things that sound different can still be true at the same time. It's just understanding the full context of what we're we're talking about.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:14

Take that, Dave.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:16

Well, and it he is, and I will tell you this, I uh I do know, and I'm sure we all do. I know a buddy who's pretty close with him, and I'm like, I will do anything to get on the podcast with him one day because very lovingly and respectfully, I'm like, Dave could teach me a lot of stuff, but I've heard him talk about HELOCs, and he's talking about a second lean HELOC, and he it's brutally messes up the interpretation of how this works, and I just hate it. I'm like, because if I don't know anybody, I'm gonna listen to Dave Ramsey over Tyler Hennessy, he's got way more clout, way more all the stuff. And I'm like, oh, you're killing people, dude. You don't know how we do what we do.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:47

So we got to get you a dialer, somebody just calling every day to the hotline, maybe one. I want to talk to her. That's awesome. Yeah, but we appreciate you coming on. And what are some last words you want to give to the viewers? If there, how can everybody find you if this is the first time they've ever seen you before? Where can they connect with you and how can they get set up with a uh first lean HELOC?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

Yeah, well, first of all, thank you both. Seriously, it's been fun to even just kick it with you guys. You all seem very down-to-earth, genuine. I'm grateful to get to know Skylar and you today, Mike. Um, so I'd say uh if if you want help in any way, I wasn't looking at this as like a an advertisement, but if you want help with what what my company does, uh you can go to my my name, TylerHennessey.com or hard makesy better.com. Either one will take you to our website. There's a landing page there where you can get on a strategy call with us. We call it a financial strategy call. So what we do is you have a first pre-quall to make sure it's even worth your time or our time, and then you'll meet with myself or one of our consultants to do a hundred percent free consultation, no strings attached. Like what people don't realize is one out of two out of three, we're like, God bless you, it ain't gonna work yet. Here's here's some things you can do, and it's not gonna work yet. But for those who do qualify, we offer a consultation where they can join our community, learn about our real estate opportunities, private lending, all the other uh just um partnerships that we have come along with that. So that's that's how it works.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:04

Well, guys, it has been a fantastic episode. It's probably one of my favorite episodes, actually, of the Tonic Council Podcast. It's been a fantastic conversation. We know that you got a ton of value out of this one, but we hope that you get a ton of value every single week when you're watching this show. If you do, we ask that you hit that like and subscribe. Make sure you're subscribed because we're going to keep putting out great, great episodes for you and getting the guests that you want to hear. As always, as always, turn up the hustle, and we will see you on the next one. Peace.